CROSSFAITH Says BABYMETAL Is Not a Metal Band

Recently, Metal Wani released an interview on their YouTube channel with CROSSFAITH. The English-language interview was conducted in London, while the band was on tour there. In the interview, they discussed various topics, including their music, their touring, and their growing fanbase, but one segment of the interview has garnered the most attention: their thoughts on BABYMETAL.

When asked about the metal scene in Japan, the interviewer lumped CROSSFAITH and BABYMETAL together, to the confusion of CROSSFAITH. “BABYMETAL is not a metal band”, replied bassist Hiroki Ikegawa. The interviewer expressed confusion at his statement, with frontman Kenta Koie somewhat agreeing with her point. Kenta went on to clarify that BABYMETAL “has a metal influence.”

BABYMETAL is considered by some to be an actual metal band, despite not being involved with or playing the music they sing over. Some of the people who don’t see BABYMETAL as a real metal band consider them to merely be an idol group, akin to AKB48 or Nogizaka46, but with metal instead of the usual pop sound.

So what does it mean when their supposed peers in the loud rock scene don’t see them as part of that scene? Check out the video below and tell us your thoughts!

Comment starts at 7:05:

  • Comments

    • guest

      Neither are metal

      • Batman

        I think Babymetal is metal but I don’t think Crossfaith is metal. They sound more like alternative rock which is still good.

    • nocchill

      It’s metal, it’s not that serious…

    • ProllyWild

      Not wrong. I think the point is valid. They are often grouped into “Loud rock” in japan, which makes no distinction between the rock influenced bands. BABYMETAL being grouped in with them is obviously something they don’t see as being one in the same. Respectfully he says that they at least have a metal influence, but to say they are roughing it and writing and playing like other metal bands is against the culture of metal. The idea that more metal bands are finding opportunity is true, but the idea that the scene is growing is likely also hard to agree to.

      • Do you not thing the scene is growing?

        • ProllyWild

          Growth is still hard to measure. A few bands finding their way abroad and being able to tour around is good, but doesn’t ultimately connect to profit and stability individually nor for the scene as a whole. Id say anyone in the funk of it would say that they’ve found new ways to rough it but no one has really found their way to a sure fire stable method.

          Records are still hard to sell, concerts are still hard to fill, and media is still hard to get. There is potential but I’d say that it’s still shy of “growth”.

    • ʕ→ᴥ←ʔ

      They definitely seem to be created just like an idol except with a metal sound… doesn’t make them any less awesome though, haha.

    • OhNana

      I consider them a metal idol group. Not really a band. I kinda agree with koie here.

    • ?

      Is Crossfaith metal?

      • iGleaux

        Metalcore. So like a sub genre within a sub genre.

        • Ash

          So, also “metal INSPIRED” lol.

          • iGleaux

            I know you all want to try and be cool and funny because you feel like they slighted your fave but Crossfaith hasn’t claimed to be something other than metalcore. The only people who seem to be offended by being “metal inspired” are Babymetal fans.

            • Ash

              Babymetal are my fave? Good to know.

              • inoarcher

                You’ve never heard metalcore before? Then don’t go talking as if you know what it is.

                • Ash

                  My point is, metalcore is also a subgenre that is typically looked down upon by ‘real’ metalheads. So this all seems silly to me. I’m not taking a side here. The fact that Crossfaith even bothered to point it out to start with is the part that made me roll my eyes. I’m no Babymetal fan and I have zero opinion on Crossfaith cause it just sounds like A7X or Bring Me the Horizon, which I don’t care for.

              • iGleaux

                So you’re being an unfunny dick just because. I rarely come on this site but I just noticed you’re the one who was annoying the OOR fans for no real reason so of course you’re in here trolling.

    • 😈

      Can wait to see what would that OOR/babymetal stan at onehalyuu going to say about this..😈

    • MaybeN0t

      Duh! They might not be a “real” metal band, they are pretty awesome regardless. And somehow they are the first of their genre idol-metal if you will. Which is more impressive than being part of something existing anyway.

    • derp

      Pot calling the kettle black

    • King of the Kats

      Not right or wrong. Actually their support band is awesome, very skilled musicians. The girls are idols but it’s the inicial purpose, the idol world is linked with entertainment, which they do well. It’s not a group that I listen in my metal state of mind but I think quite entertaining the live videos…and when I see metal icons supporting them too.

      • Batman

        That’s what I think too. Are they great musicians? No, but I enjoy their music and performance on stage and their songs.

    • David Witmer

      Whatever you want to call them , they are hard working and extremely talented performers and the world is taking notice .

      • iGleaux

        Sir please stop. You know perfectly well that Crossfaith’s comments were more about the three girls who are the face of the band and the reason why you all are in here blowing a gasket. I’m sure Crossfaith acknowledges the actual band.

      • This has nothing to do with the backing band though…

        • No9

          I think it does though. The support band is an integral part of Babymetal. Sure the members rotate but they are always there. They would never hold a live without having backing band.

          • The only people who go on about the backing band are BABYMETAL fans who use them to make the group look credible as a real band when they’re not.

            • Batman

              Babymetal is a real band. A band is a group of musicians who work together but whether they’re a metal band or not is debatable. Even pop groups are a band. Boybands are bands. AKB is a band but they’re not metal bands.

              • Those are groups, not bands. They do not play instruments. It’s like saying that Ayu is a band because she has a backing band.

                • Batman

                  Band-
                  1. “a small group of musicians and vocalists who play pop, jazz, or rock music.”
                  2. “A group of musicians who play brass, wind, or percussion instruments.”

                  This is straight out from dictionary.

                  • BABYMETAL does none of that.

                    • Batman

                      “a small group of musicians and VOCALISTS who play pop, jazz, or rock music”. I emphasized the vocalist part so you can understand it.

                    • Batman

                      For example The Ronnetes and The Carpenters are a band of vocalists.

            • Batman

              What defines a metal band anyway? Metal uses harder and much aggressive sound with heavy use of distortions and that’s what Babymetal’s music is. Is it about the voice? Hell, harsh vocals in metal only started in 80s. In fact the definition of metal is so vague. Their are even people who think Korn and Judas Priest isn’t metal but hard rock and that Metallica is not thrash metal.

          • iGleaux

            No one is actually talking about the support band and you all know it. This is about the three girls the actual reason that anyone ever talks about this act. If you removed the three girls most Babymetal fans wouldn’t care because they’d be another bunch of dudes with instruments. There’s a separate name used for the backing band for a reason.

            • The fans want to try to distance BABYMETAL from the idol world because the fans don’t want to be seen as idol fans.

              • Oxox

                BABYMETAL really does not have much in common with the average idol group, they don’t do handshake/selfie events, gravure, MC, variety shows, endorsements, singles…

                So there is natural distance from the idol world in what they do and how they do it.

                Does that mean that BABYMETAL is a band? No. But they ARE Metal.

                • Guest

                  Lmao, you really made me chuckle with your personal definition of what is idol, making stuffs up as how you feel like it.

                  The management has every possible artistic decisions behind, even before the girls are found. They just look for girls to fulfill this purpose. This is 100% idol, not even 99%. Similarly if a singer/songwriter decided to do handshake to raise CD sales, that does not make that artist any bit more idol.

                  • Oxox

                    Not true. The group, their songs, their sound and their style was built around the girls.

                    • Built around them, as in they didn’t build it themselves. Any random girl could be put in their spots and things would be the same still.

                      • Batman

                        Yeah and you can people any people in Beatles and Metallica and it won’t change anything.

                      • Can you really though?

                      • Batman

                        Yes. Why do you think people believe in the dead McCartney conspiracy?

                      • Oxox

                        No. Also, i was informed on why you suddenly decided to write a negative article about BABYMETAL… HAH! Having fun getting shut down over on OH? XD

                      • Ohh Lord, I see the BABYMETAL fans are mourning en masse about them not making it onto Nikkei Entertainment’s top girl group list. Like I said, don’t get mad at me for posting the list, get mad at Nikkei Entertainement for not including them.

                      • Oxox

                        You decided to use it to make claims about how popular BABYMETAL are even though you knew the scatter plot said otherwise(i know you know because i fucking talked with you about it right here on Arama).

                        Your hatred of BABYMETAL is quite transparent completely irrational.
                        How does abusing your position to get back at BABYMETAL fans feel?

                      • I used it to show some people that they were incorrect in saying that BABYMETAL is huge in Japan.

                      • Oxox

                        You INCORRECTLY tried to use it to show that, since it shows no such thing.

                        Then you got Mad Online when people pointed that out.

                      • They didn’t make the list, sorry!

                  • gus

                    bingo

                  • Oxox

                    Hey Ronny.

                    • I have never used another name here.

              • iGleaux

                Yet they’re in here carrying on like idol fans, hilarious.

                • The irony of it all…

            • Oxox

              Exactly, if you take away the girls they would just be dudes with instruments proving that BABYMETALs success is due to the girls, their talent and hard work.

              • gus

                Nah, it’s not the girls. It’s the management “hard work”, the girls are just replaceable corporate puppets.

                • Oxox

                  No.

                  Put some effort into it, you knuckledraggers haven’t updated the crap you say about BABYMETAL in the last 5 years.

                  • gus

                    It’s true though and deep down you know it.

                    • Oxox

                      It’s not. Go away.

                      • gus

                        It is. There’s a lot of Japanese singers sound like the front woman and the twin dancers are just there to please the middle aged dudes.

                      • Oxox

                        No.

                      • gus

                        The answers got shorter everytime because you low-key accept the reality I said. Good for you.

                      • Oxox

                        No.

                      • gus

                        good, you can accept it slowly.

                      • Oxox

                        No.

                • iGleaux

                  I wonder will they start graduating when they get “too old”.

              • It’s due to the girls being used as a gimmick.

                • Oxox

                  Due to the girls being extremely talented and highly trained professionals, highly experienced in a completely unique style of performing.

              • iGleaux

                Nah I’d say it’s due to idol fans love of cute Japanese girls being on that “weird Japan” tip. I don’t even think there’s anything wrong with them being idols but y’all trying to make this more than what it is amusing.

      • Kieren Yapp

        As a fan of both bands I’d take Tatsuya (the drummer of Crossfaith) over the Kami drummer any day.

        • iGleaux

          I haven’t been as hyped about a drummer in a long time. Tatsu is the truth.

    • nanashi

      I can’t watch the clip to comment about it, but personally BABYMETAL is a bridge between Pop and Metal. they made Metal ‘digestable’ to the common Pop fans and vice versa I might say. they are performers and idols, and their support band are legit musicians. to me who loved cute girls and loud rock/metal which is previously cannot be one of the same thing, BABYMETAL is a godsend. I hope these girls can stay for a long time and when they graduate, I would cry manly tears.

    • iGleaux

      At this point it would be nice if they just quit asking these other bands about them.

    • H

      I don’t get the issue. They’re a metal idol group. It’s the same issue with Perfume (same choreographer, same agency).

      The band members aren’t on the cover or do interviews on shows, etc. But that being said being idols shouldn’t make them lower than an artist or an band. They work just as hard and even in some cases harder.

      • They are not the creatives though.

        • Oxox

          So?

        • Batman

          Yeah but does that matter? We like them because of their dance, their singing etc. not because of their song writing abilities. If a bassist in a band don’t know how to sing but is good at playing bass would you care? No because you only care about his role in the band which is playing the bass so why should we care about them being not good at writing songs? Their role in the band is to sing and dance because that’s what they’re good at. We don’t go in their concerts and ask them to write songs. We go to their concert because to see them sing and dance.

        • Batman

          The same reason why people love Elvis Presley. Elvis never wrote any of his songs at all but his charisma and singing abilities compensated for that and people didn’t care about him not being to write a song because that’s not what Elvis do. Elvis is the one who performs the songs of the people who wrote them the same as the actors are the one doing what is written in their scripts even though they didn’t write it.

          • So Elvis is a band now?

            • Batman

              No you are arguing about the fact that they don’t write their songs not a about being a metal band. I assumed that’s what you meant by “creatives” and yes Elvis have his band.

              • There are actually two things I meant by being a creative: songwriting / composition and arranging / playing instruments. A lot of bands have only one person doing the songwriting / composing, with the other members doing the arranging / playing the instruments. BABYMETAL does none of these things.

                • Batman

                  Yes they don’t do that but as I said, does matter? We don’t go their concerts to watch them write song. We go to watch them sing and dance and watch the men play their instruments. We also acknowledge the songwriters for writing the song but not for playing them in front. In an orchestra you watch the people play the song of Beethoven even though they didn’t write it and we still applause them for their performance. They don’t have creative insights on Beethoven’s music at all. They just play it but we are amazed by the way they play it but we also acknowledge Beethoven for writing the song even though we didn’t see him perform them. This is the same with Babymetal.

        • Batman

          You think bands and people like Korn, Corey Taylor, Metallica, Judas Priest, RHCP, Rob Zombie etc. accepted them because they can’t write songs? They accepted them because they enjoy what they do regardless of their creativity.

          • But they’re actually musicians.

            • Batman

              Yeah and you don’t get the point. I didn’t say that they’re not musicians nor am I comparing them to Babymetal. I’m saying that even though they’re people who create their own music they don’t care about Babymetal not making their own.

              • That’s cute for them, but it’s not reality.

      • inoarcher

        You cannot compare Babymetal to ANY metal band. They are performers, they don’t make the music, they just sing and dance to the music, an idol group. And to say that they “worked harder” is wishful thinking. They were a hit because of how absurd they are, other metal bands and bands in general had to learn the instruments, started out playing music on the streets, taking years, going from record label to record label hoping someone would give them a chance. Babymetal was manufactured, just as any other idol group. They didn’t even know what metal music sounded like until they were a part of the group. To claim they worked hard when it was basically handed to them, you think like a spoiled millennial.

        • huh

          …so you think idols themselves don’t work hard? o__O maybe not akb when they just stand there but groups like perfume, BABYMETAL, keyakizaka, morning musume, etc.

        • Oxox

          They go out and dance and sing for 90+ minutes, day after day on tour.

          To be able to do that takes hard work, no matter what you think. Worked harder? Definitely harder than some metal bands, for sure.

          Also, BABYMETAL has performed in the streets, they have performed on tiny stages in record stores and they have performed in tiny clubs. Just because they did so when they were really young and were able to move beyond that does not mean it didn’t take effort or that it was handed to them.

          YOU sound like a spoiled brat that thinks everyone who doesn’t do things by the rulebook you think musicians should follow is not working hard and is having things handed to them.

        • gus

          Agreed, they are just an idol group with backing band and nothing more.

        • Arbi Irsyad Fikri

          being an idol group doesnt diminish all their hard work, people work hard on their own way, its the same with any others thing in this world, but with their current concept no matter how hard they work they can never be a band, just an idol, but nothing is wrong with that

    • maguro part deux

      What does Johannes Krauser think?

    • starlightshimmers

      Since when did telling the truth become offensive? BABYMETAL isn’t a metal band. They’re an idol group.

    • BAD KID

      *tips fedora*

      • gus

        Ironically, Babymetal is the one with “neckbeard fedora” fan base now. Plus tons of white dads without self awareness.

        • BAD KID

          idol and metal neckbeards, the worst mix

    • After seeing this band in a club, I call any band with metal sound a metal band. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POmwbDg5jhM

    • Is not metal, but.. “has a metal influence…” lol.. is contradicted

      • Batman

        I don’t think so. You can have influence from other genre but not really adapt it.

        • I understand that. Simply is unfair want to put Babymetal as a completely Metal Group. Because is not… is a new and bizarre concept that is it difficult to fit in the genre… and not pretend nothing more, only a good music to listen

    • faye77

      Koie is right, it is true that BM isn’t a band, they are a group. Peace, out.

      • Batman

        A band and group is synonymous . Why do people think bands only extends to rock bands? If you read the dictionary it defines band as “a small group of musicians and vocalists who play pop, jazz, or rock music.” Pop groups are bands. Boybands are a band. AKB is a band. K-pop groups are bands. Whether they’re a metal band or not is the issue.

        • Where are the musicians in BABYMETAL though?

        • faye77

          Define ‘play music’.

    • toak

      Babymetal is very clearly metal. It’s not really up for debate, they’re squarely metal in sound, girly shouts don’t affect that. You could argue they’re not a band, but not metal? Only if you think genre is separate from sound. Their album tracks have not really strayed from that either – they’re all metal. What you think of their quality has nothing to do with that.

    • not metal

      A metal group calling another metal group not metal is so not metal

    • Ahmad Ridwan

      well they’re not a metal band, they’re an idol group, that’s true. but what’s so wrong with that? The music are legit, the musician behind them could play, and they don’t market themselves as a regular idol group (gravure, variety shows, handshake events, etc). heck even the only commercial they did was the google play music, which is still related to music, the field they’re focusing on solely

      • You should ask what is wrong with being an idol to those who try to distance BABYMETAL away from the idol world.

        • Batman

          No one distances them. Babymetal themselves acknowledge the fact that they’re a fuse of idol and Babymetal.

          • Why are the comments here the way that they are?

            • Batman

              I don’t know about them but even in Babymetal’s Reddit community they acknowledge them as metal + idol band and we know they came from an idol group. I’m guessing because they think Babymetal sounds nothing like pop aside from their singing.

        • Ahmad Ridwan

          well maybe because idol group has a lot of negative stigma towards them, but I personally see babymetal as a great example for a perfect idol group, most of japanese idol group can’t sing live, suzuka always do that ever since the day one, they don’t go as low as doing gravure and other sex sales related gimmickry.

          While I could understand why some people don’t want babymetal to be labeled as idol group, I’m grateful they’re an idol group, otherwise I wouldn’t recognize them, since the concept itself has been polarizing hence creating controversies, hence more exposure, hence I knew lol

    • gus

      They are not metal band, but instead idol group playing metal.

      • Batman

        And what do you call the people who plays metal? Metal band.

        • Erick Johan Gabbard

          Different meaning of the word “play”. I think gus means “play” as in “act” rather than “play” as in “play instruments”.

    • Troy Dalton

      To which I respond: who the fuck is Crossfaith?

    • Oxox

      LOL, Ronald butthurt about BABYMETAL as usual.

    • Too many people try to overthink what they are usually due to their own agenda. They’re metal.

    • What’s being said is “ya, its Metal, but not when you add the girls” – Some guys just don’t like girls. This is the 21st century – gota respect that attitude.

      • iGleaux

        Get the fuck out here with that. I probably listen to and know more Japanese bands that are all female, partly female, or fronted by females than I do guys and they slay but for some reason fewer ifans care about them.

        • The girls are too old / don’t dress is lolicon outfits.

          • Oxox

            Or because their music is not as good. Yep, that’s the one.

            Also there are now lots of Japanese idol groups that do rock or metal or punk music, that dance and sing, some that are younger than the BABYMETAL girls and some that dress in sexualized outfits but they are not as popular inside or outside of Japan… Wonder why?

            Oh yeah, because they are not as good. Their music is not as good, their singing is not as good, their dancing is not as good, everything about their performances is not as good.

            It must really bug you that the reason BABYMETAL are popular is because they are really really good at what they do.

            They might have first gotten attention because of how “weird” they are but look at fucking Ladybaby:

            Weird will only take you SO far, you have to actually be good to be able to stick around.

            And BABYMETAL are not just good, they are fucking excellent.

            P.S. “lolicon outfits”? LOL, yeah definitely Not Mad.

            • Or maybe Amuse is the factor, and not that the other groups aren’t as good? If we’re talking about in Japan, Amuse is a big name, handing the likes of BABYMETAL, Hoshino Gen, Perfume, ONE OK ROCK, Porno Graffitti, Masaharu Fukuyama, and Southern All Stars. But Amuse is also pushing some of their acts overseas: BABYMETAL, ONE OK ROCK, and Perfume. Hell, Perfume’s choreographer even does BABYMETAL’s choreography. So in the end, Amuse is pushing BABYMETAL, so let’s not act as if they are so superior.

              • Oxox

                Then maybe they ARE better and Amuse is the reason WHY they are better?

                Better training, better environment, better everything. The girls also got a lot of training, experience and discipline from simultaneously being in Sakura Gakuin which is also an Amuse joint.

                Looking at BABYMETALs early stuff, it’s clear they were working on a shoestring budget in the beginning, they didn’t get a blank check from Amuse to make a metal idol group in 2010, let’s be real.

          • iGleaux

            According to BM fans none of these other bands have music as amazing as BM.

            • Oxox

              Not “according to BM fans”, according to ME.
              BABYMETAL fans are not some monolith.

              And their music is NOT as amazing as BM, some of them have good songs here and there but they fail to deliver consistently.

              • iGleaux

                Can’t be assed to remember your user name, you’ll live. Also couldn’t be assed to read the rest of your comment so you wasted some keystrokes.

                • Oxox

                  Even if you don’t remember my username you still shouldn’t refer to me as “BM fans”. Easy to fix, just add an a before and refer to mes as “a BM fan”.

                  • iGleaux

                    Baby Metal fans.

        • Oxox

          Fewer J-fans also care about them, because their music is not as good.

          • iGleaux

            L-O-L yeah right buddy. You like what you like no need to lie on others.

            • Oxox

              OK then, pitch me one of those bands and why you think their music is as good as BABYMETALs.

              • iGleaux

                Why would I when you’ve made up your mind nothing compares to BM? You’re just going to perform more mental gymnastics. I’d rather use my energy to eat these cupcakes and watch a movie.

                • Oxox

                  I probably wouldn’t need to do mental gymnastics to like BABYMETAL more than these bands that you are too embarrassed to even tell me about…

                  • iGleaux

                    I’m not embarrassed as I share this info with people who are actually interested in getting to know other Japanese bands. Once again letting this go so I can go talk Japanese bands with people who aren’t idol obsessed trolls.

                    • Oxox

                      Yeah, whatever you can tell yourself to justify not even trying to spread the bands you think are undeservedly getting overlooked even when directly requested.

                      It’s pretty obvious why these bands that you think “slay” are not appreciated by i-Fans, their so-called fans seem desperate to stop knowledge about them spreading and even go so far as to refuse to even talk about them when asked.

                      • iGleaux

                        Somewhere right now there’s a cat licking it’s balls.

                      • Oxox

                        Good for the cat. Are you ready to talk about your bands now?

    • surfboardt

      Not a fan of BABYMETAL or metal in general, but I love how they always bother the old men that are angry that girls are “invading” their clique.

      That’s all I have to contribute.

    • violet

      I think a lot of people getting worked up in the comments didn’t actually watch the video and are just assuming it was some big insult based on the headline. They said it because the interviewer said “Bands like you, and now also BABYMETAL”. Regardless of whether or not you think they’re metal, BABYMETAL is not a “band”, and they sound nothing like Crossfaith, so I don’t blame Hiroki for being confused at being grouped in with them. I think it’s pretty clear from Koie’s tone when he’s saying “at least they have a metal influence” that he understands what the interviewer is getting at and is just trying to get back to answering the question.

      • Batman

        Babymetal is a band. Why do people assume that bands are only rock bands and such? A band is group of musicians. Even idol groups are a band but whether they’re a metal band or not is debatable.

        • Missa

          Look, here’s the problem with labeling BABYMETAL and other idol groups “band”: they look a hell of a lot less impressive when you do.

          The term “band” comes with certain standards that people judge a group off of. Things like: how talented are they as musicians, the quality of the songs they write/produce, their skill level with their instrument of choice. When you try to judge a group like BABYMETAL by the same standards as an actual metal band, they look like a bunch of poser kids who only got big because of a cheap gimmick.

          As an idol group, on the other hand, BABYMETAL stands out prominently. They’ve got a unique sound that no one else has touched on and a (literally) monopolized niche market that’s working well for them. They’re decent enough dancers and are reasonably attractive.

          tl;dr BABYMETAL works better as an idol group than a band. Trying to force the label is counter-productive and hurts their image more than it helps it.

          • Batman

            No one is forcing the label because it is defined as what is. You can’t just say that they should not be labeled something that should actually defined them just because the label being misunderstood. This is the same way as people thinking that tomato is a vegetable even though the definition of fruit is what actually defines them just because of the fact that the term vegetable is most commonly is used in plants that is cooked and not eaten raw and fruit is usually a term for food from plants that is usually eaten without the need to mix in cooking even though that is not how we define them. We define band as group of musicians singing or playing instruments so Babymetal is a band.

            • Missa

              If you want to argument semantics, I can do that too:

              A band is defined as “a small group of musicians AND vocalists,” not a “group of musicians singing OR playing instruments.” The distinction is important, as the actual definition implies a separation between the category of musician and vocalist.

              The definition of musician backs this up: “a person who plays a musical instrument, especially as a profession, or is musically talented.”

              Now, it could be argued that vocalists fall under the “or is musically talented” part of that definition. Which I would agree with, as there are certainly some talented singers out there whose voices should count as an instrument, given the level of skill they demonstrate in “playing” them.

              But then there’s another point: going by that definition, the term musician implies a level of skill or mastery that, to be frank, BABYMETAL doesn’t demonstrate.

              Regardless of how you want to define a band, BABYMETAL doesn’t qualify. They’re performers, and decent ones at that, but they’re not musicians.

              • Batman

                Not demonstrate? They have greatest voices. A lot of “real” musicians already expressed their amazement with them. Even X-Japan acknowledged it. The other two might as they usually sing in high pitches but they’re also great singers. They have a former group which I forgot the name where they demonstrate their voices without the high pitches.

              • Batman

                Even people who only finds them interesting acknowledged it too.

        • Christina Gmiterko

          No, that’s why they call them idol GROUPS not idol BANDS; because of the fact that they are NOT musicians.

          There is such a thing as an idol band though – a group that was in the idol sphere AND wrote and played their own music. That is an odd categorization that they do in Japan though, because to me, that should just be a band, period. The most successful of the type was the famous band REBECCA in the 80s.

    • Missa

      These comments are a mess, jeez.

      I can’t decide if this is because idols have gotten such a bad rep that fans will twist themselves into knots just to avoid the label, or because these fans are just really desperate to cling to the thing that they think makes their faves special and different.

      …probably both.

    • starlightshimmers

      I read this as CROSSFIT.

      • iGleaux

        lol

    • Really

      It’s a little elitist to say that. The girls do not play the instruments, the guys in the band play. To say they do not play and sing well together deserves proof the other band is better. Everyone can just talk right.

    • Batman

      Does it matter?

    • Mudkoo

      The most annoying part of BABYMETAL is, the producer can’t even be arsed to do audition properly to search cute/marketable girls. No offense to BABYMETAL fans but they’re all ugly except Yui.

      Su has crooked teeth, alien ears, long freak double-jointed arms and the ugliest of her feature: super bad skin, her skin is either super dry, super oily or has acne all over it. Thank God her voice is somewhat tolerable for idol level.

      Moa is just straight up fat. Almost 2015 Muto Ayami level.

      Yui is the only cute one but she’s skinny af and always looks depressed since 2016.

      • DRK

        Ooooh! Someone’s been reading 4chan. :P

    • Batman

      Babymetal is not metal, Iron Maiden is pop, Megadeth is Jazz, Celtic Frost is swing, Queen is boogie, Katy Parry is metal does it matter what you think are? They are only label. If you like them then listen.

    • gus

      I was a huge BABYMETAL. But after a while, you can’t help but get creeped out with the fact that lots of 50-something years old white dudes are ogling over underage girls without self-awareness.

      • Batman

        Yes and lots of old-dudes are also ogling about old dudes playing instrument. I guess they’re fags.

        • gus

          are you really this delusional? It’s completely apple to orange Go to any BABYMETAL fan FB group or reddit and you’ll know what I mean.

          • Batman

            I’ve bee there many times. I’m a Babymetal fan too and everyone is pissed off about them being called pedophile just because they enjoy the music of people younger than them. If liking a band with members younger than you makes you a pedophile then stop listening to newer bass at all.

            • gus

              The point is not that they are pissed off (plus, who wants to admit they are a pedo in a fandom forum lmao)

              All BABYMETAL fandom forum is filled with “Look at this cute moment/vid/pic of Yui <3" "Su is my Queen <3 <3 <3" 'Here's my top 10 Moa pics <3" and those posts mostly are made by middle aged dads.

              They are like K-Pop fandom in whiteknighting, but it's even worse because in K-Pop at least they are mostly are teenager girls going thru a phase but w/ BABYMETAL it's some 50-something old geezer.

              • Batman

                Yes and what wrong with that? Yes they’re cute so what? It’s true that they’re cute and beautiful. That doesn’t mean you’re sexually attracted to them.

              • Batman

                And why can’t old dudes fanboy without being discriminated? Why are we having double standards here and age discrimination?

                • Old men fantasizing about underage girls is weird and not the same as young women fantasizing about men around their own age.

          • Batman

            The people who thinks they like them because they’re young is the one you should be worried about for even thinking that.

          • Batman

            *band*

      • Batman

        And this people that you’re talking also applies to “real” musicians so you’re basically accusing them of being pedophile. Guess people are salty because Babymetal was able to perform with Rob Halfords and take a picture with Rammstein.

        • Missa

          Holy over-invested fans, Batman!

          It’s an objective fact that BABYMETAL has started to attract the same kind of fans that AKB48 groups do — creepy old dudes perving on young girls. That’s not a slander against BABYMETAL themselves; it’s pointing out that creepy old dudes are CREEPY.

          • gus

            Oh trust me, I’ve been there. the amount of neckbeards/cringy dads that BABYMETAL attracts is thrice the level AKB/any idol group does.

          • Batman

            Babymetal attracted metal fans because of their weirdness. The reason also why Babymetal have lots male fans is because heavy metal is mostly dominated by male and Babymetal is not just attracting old dudes. They have fans of all age. You can find videos on YouTube about kids listening to Babymetal and Babymetal will actually do an all kids and teens only concert this year. No adults.

    • Japanese BABYMETAL fans are commenting on this article now: http://babymetalmatome.com/archives/50002826.html

      • gus

        even the top comment on that forum admit it

        “Do people still argue over this? They are not a band but I still like it”

        This guy gets it.

    • Eviltwin Morgan

      so?

    • ProllyWild

      Wow…this quickly became one of the dumbest threads I’ve seen in a while.

      For the record most Japanese media considers babymetal to be an idol group.

      Also, it doesn’t matter either way.

    • reni koleva

      babymetal is like evry other idol group they just sing metal cuz their company say so
      they dont write or compose this songs so thei are manufactured dolls

      • David Witmer

        Red blooded American here . The only Idol I’m aware of is Billy and he is one hell of a rocker . When I was first introduced to Babymetal I was totally blown away . The performance was live , the music was flawless and as Metal as it gets . On top of that were three young girls giving total effort to entertain . Since then they have evolved into a force to be reckoned with . If you watch them live you will see that they are dead serious , extremely talented and put on a show that few Metal bands can match .

    • Welp

      They’re metal idols, so? Why are some people here trying so damn hard to deny that and making the girls seem as if they’re some revered musicians lol

      • Ash

        I think its more the fact that BM are the biggest success story on an international scale from Japan in years. Regardless of your opinion on their output, you can’t deny that for an idol group its more than just a little impressive, right?

        The fact that their music lies in the metal sphere makes it a hard pill to swallow for those more inclined to ‘legit’ metal. But then again, if a ‘real’ metal band had the same kind of exposure, pretty sure they’d get called sellouts :-p

        • Missa

          I don’t know, I think it really comes down to fans not being able to reconcile their elitism with the need for their faves to be important.

          These kinds of fans look down their nose at the idol scene. They’re exactly the kind of people to sit on a high horse over their music choices. So of course their hackles are going to raise when people call BABYMETAL an idol group.

          But at the same time, being an idol group that focuses on the metal genre is what makes BABYMETAL so interesting. Take that away and they don’t really have much going for them. Their sound is generic, their lyrics are uninspired, and their look has been done before. They have one good singer among them, but she’s not “blow you away” talented.

          But again. Elitism. Their faves can’t be an idol group, but if they’re not an idol group, they’re boring. The solution: overblow their relevance, talent, popularity, etc. until the fans feel more secure in their choice of fave.

          (None of which is to say that BABYMETAL isn’t impressive; their success isn’t for nothing. But they’re not the end all, be all, that certain fans are making them out to be here in the comments.)

          • Oxox

            Look at you trying to pretend to be Malcolm in the Middle.

            I think some fans not wanting BABYMETAL to be closely associated with Idol stuff is pretty natural if you just look at this comment section:
            “replaceable corporate puppets that don’t work hard and had everything handed to them” and similar bullshit repeated over and over by edgelord knuckledraggers.

            And this stuff is written by/cheered on by editor of this blog, a blog that likes to pretend it’s an actual legitimate media outlet sometimes.

            Not to mention all the other stuff people like to associate idols with: Sexy(underage) gravure photos, humiliating variety show appearances, handshake events and so on.

            All things that BABYMETAL does not do.

            And even look at your own comment, you can’t even for a second suspend your own preconceptions and even consider that all those things BABYMETAL fans are saying about the quality of the music, the talent, the singing and the performances are true.
            You look at it all through a lens of “oh, it’s just an idol group, they are just exaggerating elitists…”.

            But guess what? It’s all true.

            I have listened to probably every single metal/rock idol group out there.
            I am constantly on the search for great new metal/rock bands.

            Out of all of the hundreds of bands and idol groups i have heard and watched performances of BABYMETAL are one of 3 bands/groups i currently think are great and i think will go on to do great things in the future. 3.

            Of course they are not the only 3 that makes good music, but the only 3 that i think have the consistent quality, innovation, great live performances and breadth of sound that separates the good from the great.

            • gus

              They ARE replaceable corporate puppets though

              • Oxox

                No.

              • Oxox

                No.

            • Missa

              You wanna talk about preconceptions, jesus christ. I’m just gonna… go down the line here, because why not.

              1) Quotation marks are for direct quotes only. If you’re paraphrasing, you don’t use them.

              Also… people aren’t entirely wrong on that point. The girls may have put in the effort in terms of learning the songs, rehearsing, performing, etc. but they didn’t have to do what metal bands normally have to in order to get a foot in the door: they didn’t have to spend years listening to the genre, studying it, developing their own sound, learning how to use their instrumentals, etc. All of that was, and continues to be, done for them. Which is just another point that they’re not a band, they’re an idol group.

              I’m not touching the corporate puppet thing since that’s. That’s really an argument for another post — one that’s more about the role of idols in Japanese media, and not the pride of a bunch of pissed off fans for one group.

              2) “And this stuff is written by/cheered on by the editor of this blog”

              I had to stop and actually laugh here, because buddy, you are preaching to the choir with this point. I’m pretty sure this post is the first one in like 2 years where Ronald and I have actually agreed on something.

              3) “Not to mention all the other stuff people like to associate idols with:
              Sexy(underage) gravure photos, humiliating variety show appearances,
              handshake events and so on.”

              By “other people” you mean… you? Because I don’t associate idols with any of those things.

              4) “even consider that all those things BABYMETAL fans are saying about the
              quality of the music, the talent, the singing and the performances are
              true.”

              That’s because the things that BABYMETAL fans are saying about the “quality of the music, the talent, the singing and the performances” are ridiculously exaggerated and not at all in touch with reality.

              I’ve never once said that BABYMETAL wasn’t good at what they did or untalented; just that they aren’t AS talented as fans here have been making them out to be. Which they aren’t. No one is.

              5) “You look at it all through a lens of “oh, it’s just an idol group, they are just exaggerating elitists…”.”

              They ARE exaggerating elitists. Wait, I’m sorry. YOU ALL are exaggerating elitists, because you’re one of the ones that have been causing the most problems.

              I’ve never said that BABYMETAL is “just” an idol group, though. In fact, my point from the start of this was that BABYMETAL is a really INTERESTING idol group and that it’s a shame that fans want to take away the the thing that makes them so interesting just because they think the idol label is icky.

              6) “This is not an opinion born out of ignorance.”

              No, but it is one born out of blatant bias.

              BABYMETAL has a lot of potential, but they are, if you’ll excuse the pun, BABIES in this genre. They have a lot to learn and are gonna need a lot more experience before they reach the level you all are currently elevating them to. That’s not a bad thing.

              (Also, for not being an idol group, their fans sure do act like it. I haven’t seen people this rapid about protecting their faves since the last time Ronald pissed off the Arashi fandom.)

          • Oxox

            Why did you delete your reply to my post below? I wrote a whole thing in reply.. :p

            • Oxox

              Fuck it, i wrote this whole thing i am still going to post it even if the post i am replying to was deleted:

              1): They ARE entirely wrong, though. There is more than 1 kind of effort.
              These girls gave up large parts of their youth to hard work and practicing so they could be where they are today.
              They have developed a completely unique set of skills and experiences. This means they are ACTUALLY NOT REPLACEABLE.
              It has nothing to do with pride.

              And they wouldn’t be replaced anyway since that is not the style of idol group they are, they are a traditional Showa style group. You could argue that there is a direct lineage from Candies to Perfume to BABYMETAL.

              2): Repeat that to yourself: You are agreeing with Ronny.
              That alone should tell you that you are on the wrong side of the argument.

              3): No, i mean people in general.

              4): Well, how talented have people been claiming they are? Where have people been giving these exaggerated statements about their talents? What metric do they use to convey talent anyway?

              5): I have been causing problems? What problems have i caused exactly? Internet arguments?

              And yes, i would agree that an important part of BABYMETALs identity is the Idol part.
              But here is the thing: Who the fuck has said otherwise?

              I just skimmed through this entire thread and could not find ANYONE that tried to claim BABYMETAL are not idols. Not a single one.

              This argument seems to be completely made up by you and Ronny and the knuckledraggers.
              Ronny seems to have started it with that “considered by some” claim in the text of the article.

              6): You think it’s bias, i think it’s high standards. High standards that BABYMETAL happens to meet.

              And they are NOT babies in terms of experience, though. They have been doing this for 7 years this year. That’s longer than most metal bands last. And it’s not 7 years of staying within their comfort zone either, it’s 7 years of playing to all kinds of audiences in all kinds of venues and all kinds of situations, constantly challenging themselves.
              That is why they are already great with potential for even greater things.

            • Missa

              I didn’t — you can’t delete comments if you’re posting anonymously.

              That said, I’ve pretty much said everything I wanted to say. You’re clearly EXTREMELY invested in this — far more than I am, to be sure — and at this point have fallen back on blatant trolling in your belligerence. I don’t see any reason to continue engaging.

              Have a nice day.

              • Oxox

                Well, you did post a comment, right? There was a comment there and then it was gone so SOMEONE deleted it. When i tried to post reply it just said something like “can’t reply when post is not in current use” or something? Anyway…

                I don’t really see how i am trolling, i think all the points i am trying to make are supported by my arguments.

    • David Witmer

      These girls as you call them had the balls to walk out on a stage at Sonisphere in front of 50,000 die hard metal fans at age 14 and 16 and perform . If thats not metal I don’t know what is . According. to the British metal magazines it was an outstanding performance.

    • Oxox

      I would just like to point out the reason Ronny decided to write this “article” is because BABYMETAL fans over at the OneHallyu forums made him mad online.

      • Actually, I got an alert about this on my phone, so…

        • Oxox

          Ronny is Not Mad, he got an alert!

          Definitely Not Mad, he often writes articles about tiny chunks of interviews.

          Not Mad, even though Crossfaith has said some shit about BABYMETAL fans in the past and he never wrote about that…

          Not Mad that’s why he decided to inject the article with his own opinion masked under “some say”.

          Not Mad, that’s why he tried to imply that this was a common feeling among Japanese rock/metal bands even though he has nothing to back that up.

    • Ash

      Everytime I see the amount of comments idol related articles get, I really find the ‘idol is dead’ argument less and less believable.

      • What international fandom likes and what is actually popular / trending in Japan are not the same thing.

        • Ash

          But… BABYMETAL are an international phenomenon. And this site is in English.

          • That’s what I was saying. The reality in Japan is that the idol boom is declining.

    • TastyWheat

      There’s a long history of frontmen (and women) not writing lyrics or playing instruments. I don’t think that disqualifies any of them from fitting into a genre. If Babymetal still performed with prerecorded music and a fake band I would totally agree they’re not metal. I think they are a metal and J-Pop hybrid so you could really consider them as either. They don’t treat metal as a gimmick or a “sound” to exploit, they have a genuine appreciation of metal and have done a great job of paying homage to the many metal subgenres while bringing their own style to it. New and interesting groups like Babymetal have also reinvigorated the metal scene and expanded its audience. If it wasn’t for them there are plenty of other metal groups I never would’ve listened to, but they’ve really revived my inner metalhead.

      • This would be good, if BABYMETAL hadn’t said before that they didn’t know what metal was before becoming BABYMETAL.

        • Oxox

          I don’t see how that changes anything about what TastyWheat said…

    • PigeonPop

      Idols (and a particularly kitschy one at that) backed by one of the most belligerent fandoms in J-idol history to boot. I’m honestly quite intrigued to see how things turn out for the participants in this shtick from 2020 onwards.

    • Sakura Kou

      they are Jpop/metal idol group , they not metal band .

    • Oxox

      I would just like to point out that no-one in this thread has actually tried to argue that BABYMETAL are not idols.

      It’s a strawman argument that Ronny and the knuckledraggers have pulled completely out of their asses.

      It’s something Ronny claims “some say” in the text of the article… Clearly trying to put words in peoples mouths.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t have opinion on them but I heard one of their song lyric is about their producer molested and were having good ol cavemen fun w/ the main singer when she turned 15.

      Yikes.

      • Oxox

        Fuck off Ronny.

    • Mudkoo

      LOL I went to their concert in NY last summer to see what’s the hype was all about, the venue is filled w/ fat unhygienic weebs. The show is your typical alternative idol show (BiSH etc.) only replace the backing track w/ a pretty decent backing band. The twins were clearly lip-syncing though.

      • Oxox

        Fuck off Ronny.

        • DRK

          Not Ronny – not by a long shot! Mudkoo is a BM fan who debates Ronny on OH!

          • Oxox

            To me it makes sense that Ronny would use that username to insult BABYMETAL then.

        • As if I would be caught dead near a BABYMETAL concert.

    • David Landry

      Kami band is metal enough. The girls have been performing with a metal band for going on 7 years now. So not sure what it takes to make a performer (play instrument, sing, dance, rap, growl) an official ‘metal’ performer, but in the end I really don’t care.

      I don’t like BABYMETAL because they are “metal”, I like BABYMETAL because I like their music (never was much of a metal fan anyway, not since Sabbath, Deep Purple, GFR were the fresh new bands, so if metal fans don’t want BM to represent themselves as ‘metal’, then I’m fine with that, will make no difference to me or my appreciation of music of all kinds — but I am pretty sure that most metal fans have no problem with BM, or even actually appreciate the notoriety they bring.)

    • TlPPO

      Hiro is a boy…

    • DRK

      This thread is a delightful mess! Rabid BM fans spewing venom, rabid otakus spewing venom too – totally awesome!
      For the record, I’m one of those Rabid BM fans. :D

    • Omnirosa

      Delusional idol fans once against can’t understand how insulting it is for hard working musicians to have their work compared to their shit. I love listening to my Kpop idols (sorry, I can’t say the same for JPOP idols), there are also genuinely talented artistic Korean idols too, but to compare a metal band to a group of girls who don’t even write, compose, or play their own instruments obviously is going to be insulting.

      Hell, I don’t even like Crossfaith and think their shit is probably just as shit as BABYMETAL’s, but it was incredibly rude for them to put Crossfaith and BABYMETAL into the same group of Japan’s “metal scene”. BABYMETAL is a gimmick made to sell and nothing more. Enjoy their music all you want but get a grip, you are dumb as hell to act like Crossfaith shouldn’t feel sensitive about being compared to a manufactured idol group that has little to no real care about anybody else in the genre.

    • WorldGN18

      well I agree, I would define them as a metal idol group or as a Kawaii metal band whichever you prefer, that’s what makes them special after all

    • Christina Gmiterko

      In Japan, Baby Metal has only ever been considered an idol group. No different from Morning Musume, AKB etc., so I agree with the band’s confusion.